It's okay Patriot, I realize it take a lot to admit when you are wrong.

Dana - the stimulus was advertised to create jobs. The country has shed another 2.5 million jobs since the stimulus was passed. It was advertised to cap unemployment at 8%. Unemployment has hovered around 10% for months with no end in sight. These ARE facts. Of course the state and local governments were happy about it - it allowed them to defer and avoid difficult budget cuts THAT MUST BE MADE ANYWAY AT SOME POINT. That's the problem - we must make tough decisions now. NOW. The money is being spent - but NOT TO CREATE JOBS ! Tax rebates to those who pay no taxes do not create jobs. Home buyer subsidies simply allow the SELLER to ask for more money for his property (knowing the buyer has a subsidy available) and distorting the true market value (what someone would pay with no subsidy). So the buyer is paying more than the market price because of the government subsidy.

Dana - you need a more extensive knowledge of basic economics. Friedman, Hayek, Sowell...

Based on the absurdity of the first statement you sourced, I would not rely on CSMonitor.com. that is beyond absurdity...

Patriot..............

Did the Stimulus help or hurt us? I guess it’s all based on your political view, or is it? If you want to go with the facts, we really don’t know what would have happened if we did nothing. The opinions on this are based on political stance, Democrats saying it saved the economy and Republicans saying it did nothing. But… if we are all honest about it, we don’t know the complete picture of how much it helped or hurt. I do know the people put to work on projects funded by the stimulus are happy about it. I know the local and state governments were pleased. And I know many many republican senators and representatives who didn’t vote for the act sure like to brag about what the stimulus did for their area.

From MarketWatch.com

“It's almost impossible to disentangle the impact of the fiscal stimulus, the monetary stimulus and the natural tendency of the economy to grow. We can't go back and run the economy through a different reality in which the government didn't try to prevent a Great Depression.

The Obama administration will never be able to prove to skeptics that what it did was useful, because it will never be able to prove what would have happened if they'd done nothing.

Much of the stimulus was indirect, and doesn't show up in a line item in the GDP accounts.

The government is spending some money directly on goods and services, but most of the stimulus is going to taxpayers, unemployed workers, senior citizens, state and local government, car buyers, and home buyers. The money is mostly being spent.”

From CSMonitor.com

“Obama's stimulus did NOT raise government spending”

“Belt-tightening by state and local governments offset almost all of President Obama's stimulus spending, according to a recent study.”

“The counterfactual of the performance of the US economy in the absence of the fiscal stimulus is hard to ascertain.” In other words, no one knows what would have happened to government spending without the stimulus. They assume it would have chugged along at typical post-World War II levels, while others think we were headed for The Great Depression 2.0. In any event, it’s certainly not hard to find a governor who says that, but for those extra federal funds, their budget situation would be a lot worse.”

As for the defense spending, I have no issue with the spending when it’s actually for defense, but defense and policing the world are two totally different things. I don’t believe our founding fathers planned for the US to have a military base in almost every country in the world. I don’t believe our founding fathers meant for us to tear down and then rebuild nations and call it defense. Iraq would have our founding fathers rolling over in their graves. We can rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan and pour billions upon billions of dollars into it, yet I don’t hear you shouting about how wrong it is to steal from America to give to Iraq. It is always America funding the world's problems, meanwhile we can't help our own. I am not concerned with rebuilding any country when we can't take care of our own. You can label it "defense" if you want to, but it is not DEFENSE!

Dana - I read your poll question that you highlighted in support of people wanting government spending. As I suspected, the poll question is biased:

Would you approve additional government spending TO CREATE JOBS AND STIMULATE THE ECONOMY?

Now, the obvious problem with this question is that it IMPLIES that government spending WILL indeed create jobs and stimulate the economy? For reasons that I have already stated in my earlier posts, government spending does not create private sector jobs. Now, people with a general lack of knowledge or experience with economics, do not realize this. They simply believe what the question implies. As stated earlier, if government spending created jobs - we should be experiencing an economic boom right now due to the $800 billion stimulus. Of course, with unemployment at nearly 10%, that ain't happening. And it won't happen - government cannot create net jobs because for every dollar it spends to do so, it takes another dollar out of the private sector that is currently supporting jobs. Is this concept really that hard to understand. This is an excellent example of why you must be careful what you read and take as gospel. Your poll finding is meaningless with the way the question is raised. Here is a better poll question:

Would you approve additional government spending - even though our national debt is 12-13 trillion, even though we're looking at budget deficits for the next 10 years, and even though the most recent stimulus of $800 billion has left us an additional 2.5 million jobs LOST and 9.7 unemployment?

Think 60% of Americans would approve that?

C'mon girl - you are so smarter than that. And we need you on our side...

Memo to Dana - that is precisely the point. Government-run Medicaid and Medicare are going BANKRUPT !!!!!

My outrage was palpable when George W. showed no guts on restricting government spending - I've said it over and over.

With respect to Keynesian theory - please stop and second and just think. If government spending stimulated economic growth, then why the heck are we not experiencing a roaring economy right now with the $800 billion stimulus that Obama passed? If gov't spending stimulates growth, then heck, let's spend another $800 billion and double the growth rate. It doesn't work..it cannot work because the government cannot spend one penny that it hasn't taken from someone else first. That it hasn't taken from the private sector (either from taxpayers, businesses or borrowing in competition with the private sector). Dana - you are well-read and intelligent, but put some thought into the things you are reading. The evidence is in front of your eyes. Much of economics is no longer just "theory." We've had decades and decades of practical application and we know what works.

Defense spending is one of the few legitimate Constitutional responbilities of the Federal government. The overwhelming majority of the domestic spending is not. Why do you consider it okay for the all-powerful government to take money from one individual and give it to another as they see fit? Can't you see the danger in this mindset?

Cutting tax rates has proven to generate higher revenues - again because incentives matter. Allow people to keep more of what they earn and they will work harder to generate more income, thereby increasing revenues through volume of production. And you hold the line on spending, something that Repubs and Dems have failed miserably with. But we are guilty for letting them get away with it. And mindsets like yours automatically default to spend more, spend more. Again the goverment has no money. It doesn't and cannot have anything that it hasn't first TAKEN FROM SOMEONE ELSE.

America's free market principles and economic freedoms have allowed our great nation, in a little over 200 years, to become the greatest economic giant in human history - to drive more prosperity for more people in all of human history. Those statements are not opinions, they are facts. What else could you possibly attribute this country's success to other than our personal and economic freedoms, the rule of law, and respect for private property? Why do you work so hard to destroy what makes this country unique? You talk about the poor and the downtrodden. Sure we have these folks here. BUT WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD COULD THEY GO AND LIVE BETTER LIVES? You must stop demeaning this great nation and support what has made us great.

"Clinton cleaned up the Reagan/Bush mess?" Good grief...do you know any history at all other that what you glean from left-wing blogs?

And no, we do not have the same wish. My fervent desires are to preserve the precious freedoms and liberties that those Americans bled and died for to achieve national greatness and a standard of living that is the envy of the world. You do not want the same things. If you did, you couldn't possibly support this administration. You fool no one.

Patriot.... the poll showing approval for stimulus is here http://washingtonindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/stumulus1.png

The insurance industry is throwing everything they have at repealing this bill..... which makes me think, it must be better for the people than the current scam. Basically the public 50/50 on this when you look at the "no opinion" factor. I believe the more people see the benefits (no more preexisting conditions) the greater the opi9nion of it will be. In addition, what did people think about medicare when first introduced? Now I hear people from your party screaming for the government to "keep big government away from my health care" .... Memo to these folks... Medicare and Medicaid are both government run health care.

As for the Keynesian theory, we just disagree. I will look into the authors you gave me, but I think it's a matter of opinion. I've researched the numbers and they are a matter of opinion as well, because others claim their "way" ended depressions and recessions.

As for unemployment benefit extensions, where should these people go to work? Are you saying jobs are plentiful and the reason for high rates of unemployment are due to those receiving benefits being to lazy to take the job? Again, where are the jobs? Show me the jobs... I NEED TO SEE ALL THESE JOBS... if you can show me all these jobs.. then you should take it to the top level of administration because I can tell you... you'd be written in history as the man who led us out of a recession!

As for the debt, I am concerned about the debt as well! I don't know many informed Americans who are not concerned about the debt.... I was screaming about the debt as GW Bush spent us into a huge hole, where was your outrage then? Is it okay to spend ourselves silly if we label it "defense"?

Crazy Spending for "Defense" = GREAT

Crazy Spending for "Domestic" = TERRIBLE

As for the tax cuts, how do you pay back the debt while continuing to cut taxes? You could cut programs, maybe we should cut the Dept of Eduction as the Senate candidate from Nevada suggests. I think raising taxes on companies outsourcing jobs overseas.... while giving incentives to companies who keep jobs in the US is a good idea. How about green jobs, if we start the process of making windmills, solar power, etc... we put people to work.... in turn those people put money back into the economy.

See, Patriot, we have the same wish, just different ideas of getting there. In my opinion, the republicans had 8 years (6 with total control) and they made a giant mess of things.... so now it's the Democrats turn to try and clean it up.... It's a repeating pattern.... Clinton cleaned up the Reagan/Bush mess..... then another Bush....

None of this is cause for a revolution with extremist threatening to lean on their 2nd amendment rights more if they don't win the 2010 election.

Dana - Regarding healthcare, will you not admit that even the Congressional Budget office is refuting all the things that Obama (and you) said about the legislation reducing the deficit. That was a real howler...

Companies are already making plans to drop healthcare plans for employees. It's all over the news (and not just FOX). It will be a disaster if not repealed...

Dana - I just got to your statements about 8 depressions prior to WWII and Keynesian theory. I hate to break it to you, but you are sourcing deeply-flawed economic data and theory. Deeply-flawed. There is overwhelming evidence that the government's spending actions during the 1920's and 1930's actually CAUSED the Great Depression. You desperately need to read some Sowell, Walter Williams, Milton Friedman, etc. You are sourcing hopelessly outdated research. Remember - we have had 60 years of actual economic history to study since then...

Dana - Point to me to your USA Today/Gallup poll about 60% of the American people supporting additional spending to stimulate the economy. I won't believe that until I see it.

Dana - I believe that eligibility for unemployment insurance is now up to 99 weeks. There are several significant reasons why Republicans are fighting these extensions. One, it violates the Dems' Paygo rules - you cut equivalent spending before you fund additional programs - which they are not doing. That makes sense - we do it all the time in our own households. Also, the country is bankrupt. Twelve-thirteen trillion in national debt and growing. Third - you simply cannot extend unemployment benefits indefinitely - research has shown that paying people not to work reduces incentive to find work. This is not right-wing pablum, but hard truths...and common sense.

Obama can stimulate economic growth by cutting tax rates, or a minimum, not letting Bush's tax cuts expire. You tax something (like income), you get less of it - you reward something (through lower tax rates) you create incentives for additional production. Again - common sense. Anyone who has ever had a production-incentive job understands this. Rewarded for hard work. This occurred under JFK, Reagan and Bush - the research is there. Keynesian economic theory of priming the pump does not work. I encourage you to read Thomas Sowell's latest about the relationship between FDR's spending and unemployment during the Great Depression. Eye-opening...

Dana - The answer to our energy policy is a comprehensive approach utilizing all sources, wind, solar, nuclear, and oil/gas. But also appreciate the reality that 85% of current energy needs are met by carbon fuels. The reasons are they are cheap, portable and still plentiful. But yes, absolutely pursue other sources of alternative fuels - just don't stop off the economy while doing so. We are still decades away from developing some of these at a cost that doesn't greatly impact economic growth...

More to follow...

Bonnie... if Fox is your main source for "trusted" facts.... well... it explains a lot! You ask me to point out what you have wrong....I think it would be less time consuming to point out what you have right.

Okay Patriot, let me get this straight, you think opposition to all legislation is a good thing, but I call that gridlock. I agree, it’s better to oppose a bad bill, but what is happening in the current congress is far from opposition to bad bills. Just recently, the jobs bill was shot down again by the party of “Hell No” all because it didn’t give enough to big business. They voted down extensions of unemployment benefits because Democrats wouldn’t give in on a part of the bill which closes tax loopholes allowing hedge funds and other investment managers to shelter income at a lower tax rate than working families pay on their own income. The Democrats wouldn’t back down from increasing the liability taxes on oil companies either, so who suffers? The American People. Who is the party of “Hell No” protecting with their antics? Special interests and big business!

Given these facts, you continue to blame the Obama Admin and “Keynesian economics” while offering NO SOLUTION AT ALL to the economic problems we face. You praise the party of “Hell No” for supporting special interests and big business, so my question is why? Patriot, why are you against closing loopholes which protect the very people who caused this collapse? Why do you want to protect an industry whose incompetence caused the economic and environmental disaster we continue to fight in the Gulf? Just a little side note, according to a recent USA Today/Gallup Poll, 60 percent of Americans say they would favor “additional government spending to create jobs and stimulate the economy” So much for your, “defiance of the will of the people” theory.

Furthermore, before WWII, eight US recessions worsened into depressions. Since WWII, under Keynesian policies, there have been nine recessions and not one has turned into a depression. If you call that total failure, I would hate to hear your idea of success.

As for your right wing propaganda about Spain’s green movement, again you are wrong. The study your right wing extremist friends refer to was written by Gabriel Calzada, who received a great deal of funding from various corporations like ExxonMobile and other oil giants. I wonder what incentive Gabriel Calzada had to skew the facts? In addition, other documents were presented by the government of Navarra, a small region in Northern Spain, which show just how backwards Calzada has the story. According to these documents, “Sixty-five percent of electricity used in Navarra comes from renewable sources – primarily wind – built over the last twenty years. Over those years, the region went from having the highest unemployment rate in Spain to having the lowest rate, today.” Gee, who should I believe? I’m guessing Michelle Malkin is just ranting her incessant insanity as usual with little regard to factual information.

As far as the Arizona law goes, I’m with ya… I agree with the current law and I think both parties are too concerned with the political costs of action to actually go about real immigration reform.

Are you seriously trying to convince everyone that oil is still our great economic hope for the future? Forget about the wars fought and the massive messes made, forget about all that…. OIL IS THE BEST…. No need to change, despite all of the evidence which states otherwise. Let’s just bury our head in the sand (watch out for oil) and keep drilling! If this oil spill doesn’t serve as a wake up call to reform or energy policy and get off our oil addiction, I don’t know what will! OIL IS NOT THE ANSWER! We have a gaggle of alternative energy sources which would create jobs and create alternative energy, yet some people are still dragging their knuckles like a caveman. Patriot, do you have oil stocks or family in the oil industry? If you do, I can look past your passion for the oil industry, if not…. Sadly you are blind sheep of the party of “Hell No”

As for a foreign policy, seriously, it’s in shambles? Really? You know you’re right, we should be policing the entire world even more, let’s increase the defense “offensive/war profiteer” budget! Just out of curiosity, what are your answers? No, really, I want to hear your answers to our foreign and domestic problems. I hear you saying “HELL NO” loud and clear, but what I fail to hear are answers from this party! Maybe you could shed some light on this for me, possibly change my mind. I’m open to alternatives, but I don’t hear any answers. You see “Hell No” is not an answer or alternative to the problems we face as a nation. So, before you dog the current administration further, maybe you should come up with ALTERNATIVES. I know it is a foreign concept for your party, but real answers are needed.

For example, “What alternatives to the current failed energy policy do you have?” ….. “HELL NO”…. see how that doesn’t answer the question or solve the problem?

How can we best solve the health care crisis in America? ….. “Hell No” or my personal favorite… We can barter with our doctors…. Chickens for health care! I asked my doctor if I could get on the “Chickens for Health Care” barter program, but he laughed. SO much for that answer!

We could go on and on… but I think you get my point!

Dee'sMom - You're right...Bonnie and I do have a lot in common. We are on the right side... the side of truth.

Doug

Dana - You show a startling lack of depth in your thinking - like most liberals. First of all, when the policy initiatives of the governing party are so radical, so destructive, so 'socialist' and so in defiance of the will of the people (see Obamacare and the Arizona immigration law) - we should thank God that we have a party of "Hell No" to at least try and stop the damage before it engulfs us all (liberal and conservative alike). It is much better to defeat a bad bill than to pass a good one. And here are some economic facts, not Fox facts - genuine economic facts.

Since World War II, the average recession has lasted 10 months - the longest recession lasted 16 months. We are now 30 months into the current one (which began during the Bush term). Obama and the Democratic congress have had 18 months in office and have done nothing to improve our economic fortunes. On the contrary, the trillion dollar stimulus has been a failure as predicted by everyone who cared to research "Keynesian economic theory." Unemployment has hovered around 10% for months now and the only jobs this crowd can create is temporary government jobs. The only growth sector is government. And when the Bush tax cuts expire next year, we will be plunged into another major downturn.

Massive amount of green jobs? Are you serious? Research what Spain is doing with respect to green jobs now. You are oblivious...

Obama ignores the will of the people and has now admitted that he is refusing to do his Constitutional duty in securing the borders because if he does, "then Republicans won't support comprehensive immigrations reform." Two-thirds of the American people (which has to include a heck of a lot of Democrats) support

Arizon's law, but Obama doesn't care. We've surrendered part of our national sovereignty in Arizona because it's too unsafe for own citizens to travel to areas in our own country that is supported by our own tax dollars because our government refuses to do its duty. And it's no Fox fact that the administration told a foreign country they were suing Arizona before they told Arizona. That's wonderfully competent.

This 'crude ruining our coasts' has also powered the greatest economic miracle the world has ever seen. We've had a disastrous accident, yes. And the responsible parties must be held fully liable - but you don't stop drilling because of one accident. And the administration lied about the scientists supporting the drilling moratorium - they did no such thing. You can find those facts in many places other than Fox news as well.

Our foreign policy is in tatters - all the rogue regimes around the world are salivating at our sudden weakness under these treasonous Democrats. Iran moving at warp speed toward a nuclear weapon, North Korea committing acts of war against South Korea, our greatest allies (Britain, Israel, Eastern Europe) being treated worse than the Syria, Venezuela and China.

This country is more divided than ever under the hated and despised Bush.

The only way that Obama can ruin this nation is through the support of useful idiots like you. You take no time to study the real issues and then excoriate and lie about those (like Bonnie) who have.

And sister, I know you're big on prayer. I would suggest you engage heavily over the next few months that this incompetent, radical, Marxist regime begins to witness the beginning of its demise in November. If not, the America that has been the beacon of freedom over the last two centuries, is gone forever. But you will be able to revel in the fact that useful idiots, such as yourself, enabled it to happen.

Good grief...Good grief...

Dana, you still haven't listed any incorrections or misrepresentations on Fox. I watch them all but when I really want the facts, I go to the one that is the "most trusted" Fox. That is the reason I am well-informed. I'm one who wants both sides of the issue and I can't get it at the other stations. I also like ABC. However, if you have never watched Fox, you don't really know do you? Try it, you might find that the majority of the people are right in this instance.

And there was a time when we drilled here, gas was affordable for all and I can't remember a single accident because of it.

Bonnie lives on Planet Fox.... trying to state facts which were not "reported" by Fox.... is beating a dead horse. She will never ever admit the division we see in congress has to do with the party of "hell no"... it's much easier to blame President Obama. Never mind all the provisions given to Republicans in each and every bill... only to have them vote HELL NO.... Let's ignore all of this....

The only weak part of Obama is his inability to stand up to the party of hell no and tell them where they can stick the provisions they want in each bill. In his effort to fight the insane division, he continues to reach across the aisle only to have his hand bitten each time. If Bonnie is referring to this as weakness, then I agree... He's not a magician and it would take just that to get the two parties to agree!

Look at the crude ruining our coasts, and yet Bonnie's party is still all about drilling and continuing the same tired and dangerous energy policies which led to this disaster!Bonnie's party says HELL NO to a true change in our energy policy! Bonnie's party says "Hell No" to ending our oil addiction... despite the fact it would create a massive amount of new green jobs.

In reality, Bonnie's party couldn't care less about this country because they are the party of ME ME ME! How does it effect ME, is the main question in any policy making or lack there of!

Barton and Bonnie.... for big business and against anyone who rocks the boat! Bonnie, do you apologize to BP, too? Bless their hearts!

I agree, telltale, at least she admitted where her biased info is coming from.Most questions, she will just ignore until they go away. John Stossel, what a joke!!!! He was washed up when he left ABC.

and btw Tell, Stossel is far from being washed up - he is more popular now as a libertarian than he ever was as a liberal. I don't agree with him nor Ron Paul on all of their politcal ideologies

tell, you've ignored the main point here - it really doesn't matter who Stossel hangs with nor whom he hung with in the past , it is what he said and this video showing Obama saying the exact words that you and others here are denying.

Tell, one has to be Libertarian, Democrat Independent or Republican. I don't get your meaning of he hangs with Fox. So do the Kennedys, including one who work for Fox, and many of the Democrat strategists.

It's the words they speak that's important, not the party.